Normal Game Thread Full Metal Panic!: Fighting Boy Meets Girl Mafia

*slaps*

 

now the real important question, which hand are you using?

 

next one comes with a baseball bat

 

so violent

 

Because I'm L-1 and probably going to be lynched before I can finish this post

@SK please kill Falcon when I flip green.

 

May an inquire how you forgot that Falcon is still not in any way even remotely confirmed Town?

"Rot already addressed this, and I'm not bringing anything new to the discussion, but instead I'm just going to repeat the point as if it was not addressed."

I'm sorry, what?

First of all, I stated early on that Rail's claim meant that Glob was almost certainly Town. And I don't think I ever treated Doc as anything but Town. I didn't list them as "confirmed" because I reserved that status in my charts for the dead. I still listed them as Town.

That said, I knew from my role that Evil was Town. I believed Glob and Doc to be Town based on the evidence. Obviously I'd be faster to believe the former over the latter.

That was Crisp, actually. I mostly played along with the whole self-protect thing because I didn't see a point in asking about it, even though I don't believe Ratchet would allow Glob to self-protect.

I asked Glob if she was Iron, or if her ability caused kills to fail, because we needed to know that in order to treat pou as confirmed Town. By stating that pou was confirmed Town, she was effectively claiming the latter, but I did not have confidence that she understood the difference. In either case, by casting doubt on Glob's ability to understand what she was saying, I effectively cast doubt on whether or not she was vulnerable at all, which ultimately aided Town by making Mafia doubt whether she was worth shooting at.

Right, and that's well and good, but the rest of us don't know your role. We know what you've claimed is your role. So for you to state that you are confirmed Town, and that anyone who disagrees is Scum, is going from "I know I am Town" to "you should know I am Town" and that is simply not true.

I will never say that the rest of you should just believe I am Town, because I recognize that there is not overwhelming evidence to prove this. The only person for whom I believe there is overwhelming evidence of Townness is poutanko. Anyone who fights that status quo, I could see being Scum. But someone who has reasonable doubts about you, the completely unconfirmed Miller, is not inherently Scum, and to make such an accusation is incredibly suspicious.

Here's the thing about meta. If the person is aware of their meta, they can change how they behave to suit that meta. A meta read is only worthwhile if the person in question is unaware of their meta. It's like the stupid "truth" meta on NF. "Oh, that person doesn't lie, that is their meta, so let's just assume they never lie." How hard is it to break from that meta for personal gain? Not hard at all.

So your suggestion is that the Mafia has both a Hitman and a Terrorist, and was intentionally shooting non-optimal people with the former while planting bombs on optimal people with the latter. Evidence for this over separate Mafia and Serial Terrorist? None, but this one suits your narrative against me over Crisp, so, you know.

First I'm not quick enough to treat Doc as Town, now I was too quick? Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways.

Oh? Care to back this up? Give an example where I lacked my normal common sense.

Well, he was also a Cop, the asshole, but yes. And no, Doc never mentioned anything about being a Lover, because that would idiotic any time before LyLo. Frankly, I wrestled with fake claiming as a Name Cop instead of being honest, because claiming Lover means I'm offering a two-for-one to Scum now that our protective role is dead.

How convenient, make a bunch of unsubstantiated claims and then preemptively opt out of discussion of them.

Once again, I love how you just immediately dismiss a bunch of other possibilities to pretend like my being Scum is the only reasonable possibility.

That is not what I said. I said that I thought at least one member of the Mafia was among the actives. Not that all of them were. I doubted that every member of the Mafia was inactive.

This is a ToS thing. In traditional, we can't just assume certain roles are in play, because there are a million million possible roles. More to the point, the "Blackmailer" role isn't really a thing anymore in Trad, because a long time ago, I felt like it was stupid, unfun role, and removed it from my guide. I feel Ratchet has similar feelings. The "you can't post" role is stupid. It is the antithesis of fun, the Malzahar of mafia. Coupled with legitimate inactivity, it is an even stupider role.

So no, I didn't assume that role would be in play, because that role is basically never in play in Trad, because it's stupid.

Ok, can we get something straight? I did not spend 50% of my time trying to make Glob look suspect. I was open and repeatedly stated I believed Glob was Town. I stated multiple times that Rail's claim basically meant Glob had to be Town. I also never asked if she could protect herself. Once again, that was Crisp, the person everyone has seemingly forgotten about.

Prada's role was useless. Remember, he could vote female players, he just couldn't hammer. I specifically advised him to just vote early. I changed my gender as a joke.

I specifically explained how this works multiple times. If you want to claim that its better to be pure random, back that shit up with evidence.

It's likely lynch-or-lose, where Mafia just needs one misplaced vote to speedlynch and win, and you're placing "placeholder" votes?

Fun fact: In order for Falcon's strict view to make sense, Evil has to be Scum. But, if Evil being Town suits his narrative that I'm Scum, he'll just immediately that too, because his view doesn't make sense, as long as I'm lynched.

I have not been repeating that. Again, please do not put words in my mouth. I said that there is some evidence to suggest those investigated are Town. This is why I believe that they should claim after players for whom there was no such evidence. I didn't say that either Crisp or myself has to be Town. I simply said, there is better evidence for us, than there for the other unclaimed.

Christ guys, I have already addressed this with math and everything. Please stop repeating points that have been categorically disproven.

Only if you look at it purely from percentages and not from actual size. I didn't waste 65% of my effort on Glob, because there wasn't anything else to apply that 65% to. That 65% was in addition to what I'd otherwise have posted. I still had thousands of words devoted to other stuff.

Why? You spent all of the last phase screaming about how suspicious Crisp was, so why is Crisp suddenly not likely the GF?

>proposes that mafia has two forms of kill
>feels like mafia must be as large as was expected when it was believed to have just one kill

 

Alright, so the tl;dr for people who don't like reading in a game that is 100% reading (but who will also make definitive statements about how I'm apparently not posting enough when I'm also simultaneously posting way too much).

@SK Please explain to me why, specifically, Crisp is unlikely the Godfather. You were extremely critical of Crisp earlier, and Crisp was overtly suspicious previously, so I'm surprised at how many players have just written her off as Town.

@poutanko Please explain how I started setting up this Lover claim on Evil without knowing that Doc was a Lover yesterday, before he flipped. Remember that I vouched for him yesterday when he would have otherwise been an easy lynch. Please reconcile this behavior.

@Crimson Falcon Please explain, in light of Evil being almost certainly Town per poutanko, how you reconcile three Scum, since you clearly expressed doubt of two Scum earlier. Are both Crisp and I Scum? Or are you going to go back to SK being Scum?

I'd also appreciate if anyone who wishes to continue repeating "Rot spent too much time focusing on Glob" please shut the **** up, because I've demonstrated that I spent more that sufficient time on everyone else. Either offer a real counterpoint, or concede the argument. I am tired of being repeatedly accused of "focusing too much" on Glob when I spent plenty of time on everyone else. This also goes for objectively false arguments, like that I was trying to make Glob look suspicious, or that I was asking Glob for unnecessary information (a thing Crisp specifically did that no one seems to remember). It is infuriating, seeing people whom I believe to be Town repeating this idiotic arguments they're being fed by Falcon.

[v]Vote: @Crimson Falcon[/b]

Because, more than anyone else, I believe him to be Scum.

His character betrays Mithril, which is the justification for his being a Miller, but he presumably does so after the current arc (otherwise, he'd be Scum proper, wouldn't he?) So why is he a Miller? Do people suspect him prior to his betrayal? I mean, I don't know, because the FMP wiki is garbage. But I'm going to assume that people don't suspect him prior to the betrayal, because that would ruin some of the narrative stakes of his betrayal.

His early play was pretty awful. I feel like Falcon did nothing to contribute on Day 1. He just complained that Prada wanted to lynch him, and occasionally parroted others. This play carried over into Day 2. He's spent almost the whole game trying to fly under everyone's radar, and his main approach to criticism has been to pretend like we should just know he's Town.

Now that we're in crunch time, he's suddenly become active, and he's pushing really hard for a specific lynch. He's lied to try and push the lynch (such as stating that I was the one who asked Glob if she would self-protect), offered contradictory "scumtells" for me (stating both that I didn't accept Doc being Town fast enough and that I accepted Doc being Town too fast), has treated another player as confirmed Town when they are not (Crisp, in this case), and was quick to vote when it seemed like the wagon was going the way he wanted it to. He also opened by claiming whom he believed was Town (including himself and Crisp in that list), and stated that anyone who disagreed with him must be Scum, which I cannot properly express how big a red flag that ought be for people.

He claimed very specifically that he believed the kills and bombs were from the same faction, and that he believed the kills were specifically made to look dumb while the bombs took out the real threats. He attributed this to me, but I would point out that, as the person coming up with this theory, it's just as likely that he was the architect of such a strategy.

I'd also like to reiterate that Falcon and Crisp have repeatedly treated one another as confirmed Town when there is no reason for them to do so. Falcon can argue that, from his PoV, he is confirmed Town, but he has no reason to believe Crisp to be, and Crisp has no reason whatsoever to treat Falcon as confirmed Town, yet both have repeatedly done so.

 

Vote: Crimson Falcon

Because b and v are close together.

 

Goes to show you're not using common sense, in both scenarios Kat is mafia, yet you omgus a vote on me instead of settling to lynch the undeniable mafia in any scenario.


Git ded.

 

Hardly. I most strongly believe you are Scum, and you have repeatedly suggested lynching/killing Katyusha. I think that's why you're pushing this 3-man narrative. I think it's just you and Crisp, and Katyusha was your intended Patsy until Pou and SK expressed suspicion of me.

I mean, ****, Katyu is Scum in all of your scenarios too, yet you're voting me. Just another example of inconsistent, fallacious arguments to sell your narrative.

 

@Rotaretilbo Listen the reason crisp went down my sus list despite being on the top previously was majorly due to white clearing her. Then after I took a break and settled down and gave it some thought what she did was very stupid.... Too stupid matter of fact. If let's say evil was copped and was cleared and not you. Then I would lynch her over evil. But in this case it is she or you. I personally felt that you kept under the radar trying ti avoid discussion when you put soo much effort into a confirmed townie. If it was anyone else I wouldn't mind. But it was a confirmed townie. Everyone here been saying how experienced you are in this game and how you could pull these stuff which made me more aware of you as time went on. Until I looked at you at a grander scale and there is def something off with you. I see you as a potential GF more than Crisp at this case.

>way to much unnecessary attention to globear that could of been used somewhere else. Felt like you were trying to stay out of the spotlight and go under the radar.
>you never really contributed to any lynch in the game except for this one. Matter of fact I think this is your first vote? (correct me if I am wrong)

As I stated earlier your entire lover setup in the previous DP could very well be a move you pulled to save your scum partner. (Yes I am not throwing this out of the option just yet)

You do however raise some good points. Crisp is indeed making it seem like CF is a confirmed townie or something. CF in the other hand I believe views her as a dumb townie? he did mention it in the previous dp so maybe he serenely believes that she is just a dumb townie.

 

@Crispickle care to enlighten me why don't suspect CF and treat him like a confirmed townie despite him being a supposedly miller?

 

edit*

 

What's "despite" supposed to mean. Miller is town, lol. Just shows up as guilty.

 

Stupidity is not a mark of Townness. It just isn't a mark of Scumness either. Being stupid doesn't mean she can't be stupid Scum. The big thing that put Crisp on the map for most people was her asking Glob early on if Glob intended to self-protect. The only thing that really took her off everyone's radar was Doc's confirmation of her. That confirmation is now in doubt.

Avoid discussion? I HAVE FOUR THOUSAND+ WORDS DEDICATED TO OTHER DISCUSSIONS! I couldn't be part of discussion any harder if I tried! Even when I missed discussion due to being away for a day on, I think it was Day 1, I went back and responded to everything I felt was pertinent in my like my second post on Day 2 (my first post being "I'm at work, and I have a post ready at home"). I absolutely did not avoid discussion. I just supplemented my participation in other discussions with arguing with Glob. And as it happened, Glob posted a lot, which meant that there was usually more back and forth between us than there were other discussions going on.

Right, that would make sense if I was trying to cast suspicion on Glob. But, as I've stated repeatedly, over and over, time after time, I was not. I specifically stated that I believed Glob was Town, and instead wanted to verify that she understood her role well enough for the information she was giving us to be sound. I also wanted to make it abundantly clear, while it was fresh in everyone's mind, to please not early claim like that, because it was a terrible move.

I'll accept "more than" here, I just don't like how most people are treating it like a foregone conclusion that it has to be me.

A) It didn't become unnecessary until pou was vouched for by Doc, at which point the discussion was mostly dropped.

B) The effort couldn't have been used elsewhere. When I sit down to write a post, I write the whole post. Doesn't matter how long it takes. I don't have a finite amount of energy after which I just go "ah, **** it" and post. Well, I do, but none of my posts have broken the char limit here yet, so I assure you that I haven't even come close to my limit. So that was not energy that I could have focused elsewhere, it was energy that I would have otherwise not focused on the game. Please do not conflate the two.

C) I was active in other discussions, and I was hardly flying under the radar by making all those big posts. A thing I have objectively demonstrated, that you continue to just ignore.

Contributing != voting. I tended not to be around in the last few hours of a given phase, because the phases tended to end in the early AMs for me, while I was asleep. As I tend to hold my vote because I think voting willy nilly is pointless, this translated to me not voting much. I did, however, have lots to say about people. You may recall my 4000+ words dedicated to stuff other than Glob's dumb claim.

I mean, flavor-wise, if Doc's character could only reasonably be a Lover of Evil's character, than I feel like you have little ground to stand on here. The odds of Evil being Scum are incredibly remote, and I went out of my way yesterday to vouch for him when that Townness was not established, when doing so would actively make me look more suspicious. Indeed, I think that my vouching for Evil has probably contributed a lot to the mentality that I'm more likely the Scum among the innocents here.

It's an inherently suspicious claim because its inherently impossible to prove, short of a Role Cop. Nothing about such a claim would make you confirmed Town.