Normal Game Thread Big Trouble in Little Salem

Well I've already voted for you. You can say you know what you meant, but you don't seem to be able to explain it, and your first reaction instead of trying to do so was to deflect back with a baseless accusation. You claim you've made it clear, but you really haven't at all, and you apparently are incapable of following a simple post that breaks it all down, so tell me why you're worth keeping around in this game. Because it clearly isn't for consistency or for any kind of rational approach from you.

 

Better then your ego of

You called him shit
I said no I didnt

But you did here
I said no this was at Zex

No but this makes no sense at Zex so its at crimson

Like sure. Im not even sure whats the point of arguing with you because all your arguments come back to but I was right and no you werent.

Also never cared about single votes on me especially on as baseless and "Im right" tier arguments.

 

It was a joke. No doubt about it. CR barely posted anything before that nor did I make any statements or reason around any posts before to even make any accusation. All I did was poke at him.

It wasn't role fishing. I still don't see how you keep portraying such. Nor have you really made a point of how it was role fishing, you just keep accusing as such to get the rest of the crowd to join in and give thoughts. Which, oh wait people did. And most who did said it was an obvious joke. But maybe you missed that?

I'm good with anclaim from him now. You know where he got pressure and kinda bugged out? Or do you think I ignored all that and still rolefishing? Like really? Why are you so defensive of CR?

your convo with ningen was. You guys may have argued a bit and "insulted" each other but wasn't much content. Too forced to say you'd be seperste if one of you flipped.

 

Regardless its sleep time so I will be able to check in morning and vote accordingly.

 

My ego has absolutely nothing to do with anything said here. Try again. Maybe you just couldn't think of the right word?

Did you miss the bit where I showed how it makes no sense to be aimed at Zex? I think I've given you enough prompts to try reading again at this point.

Ah, I see. You don't understand what baseless means. It means to be unfounded or not supported. It can't apply in this case, as I've clearly shown how it is supported, and refusing to concede comments/changing the context retroactively is a hallmark of scum. If you want, I can link you to some great dictionary sites that explain it better than I can. Your accusation, that I was putting words in your mouth is, on the other hand, baseless, as you haven't demonstrated how I've done so. You've just said I have. Despite me growing to great lengths to show that I haven't.

Try re-reading the above bit a few times. Slowly, too. Maybe the penny will drop. I haven't given up hope in you just yet Viole.

 

Man, the shit that goes down when I sleep.

I want to clarify that "other places don't RNG role distribution" is not a logical argument, it is an anecdote. Logically, RNG distribution avoids the sort of silly metalogic that "He is new, therefore he is not Scum." This is why RNG is the preferred method of distribution. Either way, the host has now confirmed that roles are distributed randomly.

The "ur scum" "no, ur scum" routine is kinda played out. It's not adding anything to the game.

Reaper's argument that he couldn't be Scum because the host would never give a "new" player that role isn't really WIFOM. While, yes, the host's behavior is in question, there is no spiral of second guessing here, because the host doesn't have a vested interest in lying to us. From our perspective, the host goes "I could assign roles via not RNG, but that would allow players to try and hunt scum through means other than the intended methods, so I won't." The argument is bad, but it's not WIFOM.

While some of his subsequent arguments were proper WIFOM, I'd press that you can't just hit someone with "WIFOM" without at least explaining what that means, unless you know for certain that they know what it means. I mean, after I just ranted to Ningen about people taking terminology for granted, I'd expect better.

Alright, since my compatriots have failed me, allow me to explain what WIFOM is. WIFOM, which stands for Wine in Front of Me, is a reference to a scene from the Princess Bride, wherein a man challenges another to a duel of wits. The challenge is as follows: two wine glasses are set forth, and while one man has his eyes closed, the other man poisons one of the glasses. Does he poison the other man's glass, or anticipate that the other man will insist they switch glasses, and so poison his own glass?

WIFOM is generally used to refer to when a person states that they would not do something if they were Scum because it would be bad. For example, you state that you wouldn't joke about being Scum as actual Scum, because that would draw too much attention. The reason this is not a strong argument is because you use this argument to avoid attention; you could anticipate this argument, and therefore do it as Scum. That is to say, the existence of a WIFOM defense is itself reason to do whatever it is you have done.

And now I get to explain what OMGUS is. OMGUS, which stands for Oh My God You Suck, refers to when a player tries to turn an accusation on their accuser, but offers no actual depth to the accusation. That is, the accused just declares that their accuser sucks. The reason OMGUS isn't really a good argument is because it assumes that everyone has the same information that you have: you know yourself to be Town, and therefore anyone accusing you must be Scum, because they must also know you to be Town. The reality is that no one but you knows your alignment for certain, and so it is not uncommon for Town to accuse other Town. That is, after all, the nature of the game. I'd be remiss not to mention that Scum will also sometimes employ this as a shallow attempt to deflect suspicion off of themselves.

Nothing about Reaper's play has in any way indicated that he is experienced, or even not new. Just because he's played "games" does not mean he explicitly knows what he's doing. Log had played games, and he was quick to tell us about them, and we all saw how well that worked out.

I would argue that different players can handle different levels of pressure before becoming exasperated and giving up, and that a player's ability to handle pressure is directly correlated to their experience with the game; it's not the only factor, mind, but it is a factor.

I think I see what you're trying to do here (demonstrate that, under certain circumstances, Glob would become exasperated and stop defending herself), but I feel like you got sidetracked in a very specific example, and have only yourself to blame when the applicability of that example to this situation is called into question. You're the one that brought up and consistently repeated a specific time frame, after all. And while Nick's comment is of note, it doesn't erase your attempt to argue that all of the pressure was meaningless.

While not knowing how to defend one's self and not defending one's self are indeed two different things, one intrinsically leads to the other. If you don't know how to defend yourself, you can't defend yourself, because you don't know how, and therefore don't defend yourself. Ratchet's point is that Reaper doesn't seem to know how to defend himself as an explanation for why he is not defending himself anymore. Your calling attention to this distinction, then, is meaningless.

There's something very wishywashy about these two statements, to me. In light of the second, the first strikes me as rather opportunistic.

Alright, let's be real, here. Just because Nick didn't take a more active role in the discussion does not mean his post doesn't exist, nor does it mean that his post couldn't have influenced the argument in any way.

I read it as the opposite. Knowing that Reaper claimed at the slightest provocation last game would make Nick's actions worse, in my eyes, because it would mean he was fully aware of the possibility that he would provoke Reaper into claiming this game. This isn't something I can just write off as a joke, because it's not obvious that Reaper learned his lesson last time.

That's not entirely true. Scumtells rely on the community being cognizant of them, and on the player being experienced enough to recognize them, in order to avoid false positives. That is, after all, the danger of a fallacy: it's designed to trick people into thinking its logical, so it stands to reason that the user can also be under that spell. That's why it's important to point out and explain why something is fallacious, so the user can become cognizant of the fallacy; if they use the fallacy again anyway, then you have traction.

Sigh. Alright.

This is the post in question. Specifically, the second paragraph.

You claim that "don't be a shit" is aimed at Prada, but that makes no sense. In the first paragraph, you claim that Prada is escalating the shit. This means that he didn't start the shit, because he is escalating existing shit. It therefore stands to reason that someone else started the shit. Contextually, you're probably not calling Falcon, yourself, or Nick a shit, so it stands to reason that the only person you could be calling a shit is Reaper.

-----

Claimed So Far
@Ningen - Innocent (#4)
@ッCrimsonReaper - Innocent (#7)
@Lord Maple - Innocent (#10)
@Nick - Innocent (#21)
@Rotaretilbo - Innocent (#24)
@Crimson Falcon - Innocent (#25)
@Bimbonium - Innocent (#26)
@Globear - Innocent (#46)
@Prada - Innocent (#47)
@wowee - Innocent (#55)
@Ratchet - Innocent (#56)
@poutanko - Innocent (#88)

Posted, but Neither Claimed Nor Objected
@Quick

Not Even Posted
@Crispickle
@S H I N T O

 

Are votes a requirement in this game type? Wondering since phase end is at a way bad time for me.

It's stupid, but it's understandable. He could've easily expected him to be first time mafia and hence why he didn't claim like last time.

Nothing wishywashy about it, do you see me voting for him?
I questioned him to see how he'd react. He overreacted drastically. I even told him to take a breather and come back. Agreeing with someone doesn't change the course of the conversation. He's off, whether he's noob town, noob scum or something in between, it was more than worth bringing those points up. Do you disagree with Ratchet's claims then?

Probably fair, though can't say that I went so hard on him where he'd QQ after a page and a half like that for no reason realistically speaking. I'm sure there's people here who can go much harder for less.

True enough but hard to miss out on that opportunity.

 

Well, you voting him or not voting him doesn't make it any more or less wishywashy. The voting bit is an entirely separate matter.

 

Sounds like reaching tbf. Questioning people who act suspicious is the norm, as is fluidity. A lot of people can't even take that much of an incentive, but shrug you see it how you see it.

I have my way of doing things, he reeked of someone needing to be called out and that I did.

 

How about an answer to this

 

oh my, i didnt know we were having another one

rip. see you in ten years when i'll catch up

 

Is it the championship all over again? Crisp lurks and I have to believe that he is town?

 

hmm

sounds good to me

 

The convo between the two Crimsons felt like a joke till this point.

Since you knew we were going to suspect you if you made the joke, why make it? Except ofc you wanted to be lynched (which doesn't make sense).
Nick's joke would normally pass as a joke, in other circumstances, but this time, it really could have made CR claim.

Also, as usual, little things escalate and become huge on D1.

I'm surprised more wasn't said about Quick's quick reads, they almost literally scream scum, making me think he just wanted to post something or isn't used to being scum

 

It got buried beneath Rot's post and Rat vs Viole, but both Wowee and Rat questioned him on his quick reads. Though without a reply from him it's a lot of speculation at this point. It looks bad to say the least, but would be nice to get some more posts from him to get a more concrete read on him.